46 Comments

hmmmm ... not sure this is much of an improvement, also surely this would scale down really badly as the letters are now much smaller in comparison to the mark?
Ben Hanbury
2008-10-23 10:52:14

I can't help thinking they're wasting their time.

Is it better? I'm not convinced.

Can the BT logo be saved without changing it radically? No.

Is this interesting news? No.
Damien
2008-10-23 11:06:34

I don't know, somehow with the BT in lowercase is looks less authoritative. It also looks like it should be pronounced "buhtuh"... preferably in a Fonejacker doovde accent.
Ben Stevens
2008-10-23 11:17:42

definately, better!!! much better, now is much more eye catching and easier to focus
littleoslo
2008-10-23 11:24:13

i think: Not an improvement and stop spamming this blog.
Honestly what's with this redesign bullshit. Is the economical recession already started at their studio by spending their time on 'cheekily attempts to improve logos?
Jay
2008-10-23 11:31:32

I'm not sure what Johnson Banks aim to achieve here, other than a bit of navel gazing or PR, but these LoGoReDos do seem to devalue the design process. The resulting work looks like 10 minutes of tinkering with an identity and skirting around the edges of what logo re-design should be, without client input. We all know the hostility that a re-brand receives in the press, so why pander to those preconceptions?

For what it's worth, I don't think the logo will work particularly well small as the 'bt' logotype will lose its legibility once reduced. Look at bt.com to see the size they've used it there, for example. Besides, is BT really a lowercase brand?

There, career in tatters: I've just criticised the Big JB...
Marcus Taylor
2008-10-23 11:32:00

Hi,

Just to let you know a spammer's got hold of your RSS feed, recieving articles but a load of intersting garbage on alternative health products as well...!

Thanks.
James
2008-10-23 12:08:34

@James

Thanks for letting us know - have cleared that out now. Mark
creativereview
2008-10-23 12:13:42

Great, there are some really awful logos out there they should tackle Blackpool Leisure Beach next then the Art Fund logo, that really is bad. Both could easily be improved in 5 minutes.
Mark
2008-10-23 12:28:41

Marcus Taylor is absolutely right.

This is rainy day blogging at it's best from MJ.
Ross
2008-10-23 12:31:19

I would also advocate them spending time on Art Fund, Blackpool Pleasure and maybe if they are that quiet having a look at the CABE identity as well. It smacks of smugness and rudeness to me, when you have decided something is bad, so you start re-designing it in public. We all have our own opinions on design and what we like or don't and critique and discussion is a great thing. But these are opinions and they should stay as that.
James Greenfield
2008-10-23 13:30:05

have you got nothing better to do?
its not serious re-design, just tinkering (badly)
not sure i understand why its on CR website, other than to provoke, yep, its done that
Louis della-Porta
2008-10-23 15:00:40

not worth the multi million pound rebranding fee it would mean making!

and what were you thinking with the red option? for all the talent out there I am disappointed CR gave this column inches!
Jenny
2008-10-23 16:04:13

what is he trying to say here? I am cleverer than you, I am a better designer than you, I know better than you?

Sorry but let's be honest this is nothing more than somone so desperate for self promotion that they have sunk to very base levels or a desperate cry for attention. I'm not sure which is worse, this is probably blogged now.

Do us all a favour grow up or shut up.
michael
2008-10-23 16:24:32

The way I see it is 'You can't polish a turd' - I think Paul Rand said that but I might be wrong.
Derek Stewart
2008-10-23 16:31:21

And what will happen to the white 'bt' when the globe animates and spins?
Neil
2008-10-23 16:33:40

Wow, I'm really surprised at the vehemence against this exercise in the comments. As an art historian, and someone who spends a lot of time thinking about the design process, I found this to be intriguing. I hope they keep it up.
LadyD
2008-10-23 18:19:16

I really do think there was no effort put into this re-design at all hence its not really worth talking about. All this post has managed to do is make worse what was acceptably mediocre in the that first place. BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD I SAY!
Celestine
2008-10-23 20:43:13

I suspect a design by committee…
Hon
2008-10-24 07:26:01

These improvements just smack of tinkering, and having the last word.
James Stone
2008-10-24 07:46:43

I just thought I'd pop a note in here to say, er, thanks for the feedback but you're taking this way too seriously.

LoGoReDo was just an idea to try and 'fix' some of the logos that are out there that don't seem to be working. I've been staring at the BT type for 19 years, and the T-Mobile logo for about a decade, thinking ‘surely they could have done that better’. Doesn’t everyone think that about certain logos?

All I did was get some vector artwork and see what happened. Obviously one’s first reaction is that each organisation should ‘start again’, and doubtless they will when each feels a major re-brand is needed. But this was just a gentle exercise in craft, nothing more, forcing ourselves to work with elements already there, not some Machiavellian attempt to short-circuit the branding process, or indeed the new business process.

I’ll admit that it’s unusual to put what normally stays in a sketchbook into cyberspace. A bit like talking to the audience in theatre or looking into the camera in a film - it’s not supposed to happen. And the T-Mobile one comes to a better conclusion than the BT one, it’s true. But, when I last looked it was still a free world, it seemed interesting, so we posted them.

Just to clear up another point, we don't have a PR beating company beating on CR's door for articles. I sent a brief email because I knew that Patrick Burgoyne had posted, also quite controversially, about identity recently. CR posted their version of the article above unbeknownst to johnson banks.

Currently we're pretty happy with our own identities for the likes of Cabe, the BFI et al (as mentioned in the discussion string), but if people feel so strongly that they want to redesign them, then in the interests of fair play, please go ahead. You can send them through to info[at]johnsonbanks[dot]co[dot]uk, it would probably make a very interesting piece.

Michael Johnson
http://www.johnsonbanks.co.uk
Michael Johnson
2008-10-24 07:58:22

So...it's got nothing to do with self promotion then? Bit slack on the work front are we? Can we all just get back to working on the jobs we have been given to do and let the clients decide what they want to do with their logos? I'm sure if they want Johnson Banks to redo their logo they'll ask. In the meantime, stop messing around and get back to your desk boy.
Marc Woodhouse
2008-10-24 09:58:30

In response to Michael Johnson, I understand what you are saying about not taking it too seriously, fair play! But maybe if that Is the case also do a complete LoGoReDo, tweaking logo's here and there may be what big business want but I personally would be more impressed if was turned on its head......I personally would bring back Buzby!

I have also looked at taking big brand's away from there owners and making them my own, but I am the first to admit it is because I admire them and want to drive more traffic towards what I do and maybe one day have a chance to create something with them weight behind it......but like MJ say's it's a free world!


Framedink

http://framedink.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/brandbootlegging/

http://www.framedink.com/
framedink
2008-10-24 13:01:38

I know it's a free world and it's a bit of fun but I'm beginning to find all this 'brandbootlegging' business a bit scary. If, indeed, we're bit partial to a bit of dabbling let's try and keep it to our sketchbooks/desktops ...at least until we have something worthwhile and considered to show.
Derek Stewart
2008-10-24 14:05:05

Why do you find it scary, Derek?
Why hide anything away?
The internet has created an open forum were anyone can show and display work and were everyone is entitled to an opinion, design as with art is subjective and we are living in one of the most exciting era's in both art & design were the immediacy and volume is immense!
Brandbootlegging/LoGoReDo as a concept is nothing new and many designers have done this in the past legally and illegally, in fact a lot of Brands now realise the potential of this form of free advertising and hit various social/consumer/demographic/markets as with what they see fit, which is also very exciting, but equally as depressing as you see the underground go over ground, but I don't care what you say deep down eventually we all want to get paid!

The Rozz-Tox Manifesto - Gary Panter: “Waiting for art talent scouts? There are no art talent scouts. Face it, no one will seek you out.”
framedink
2008-10-24 14:31:32

I like it - the new image is simpler and works as a cleaner piece of communication.

However, the original logo is overly complex and messy to work in any way. It lacks any sort of meaning other than, er we've got a bunch of stuff, so our logo needs to be a bunch of stuff. Weak.

I'd also be very concerned that British is represented by a lower case 'b'. This simply isn't right.

Good questioning though CR. More please.
Simon Coxon
2008-10-24 15:27:56

What on earth?

Are you guys serious...really

I work as Head of Marketing for a fairly large(FTSE 100) and dare I say it important client. Certainly one of the sort of size of BT, and I found what Johnson Banks have done with the BT and T-Mobile's ID very interesting.

Anything that provokes a debate around the improvement of things has got to be congratulated...surely?

Why should it matter that is has been given the oxygen of publicity? This was a matter for JB's website until Creative Review posted it on their blog...and now from what I can see a load of jealous, pretentious folk are having a swipe.

From my point of view this is a microcosm of what is so hideous about some parts of the design industry - get over yourselves and start focussing on how through design the world can be communicated in a more effective, motivating and exciting manner.

Mr Johnson - I concur with Mr Woodhouse (without the post lunch beer fuelled offence) - get back to your desk and keep doing what you do...fantastic, exciting, benchmark raising design.

To the rest of you - hope that you will be as good one day.
Tom
2008-10-24 17:25:03

Nope not an improvement. Suggestion for a "cheeky improvement" - the London 2012 olympics logo
Red
2008-10-24 18:13:14

I'm glad Michael Johnson stepped in to try and put this blog back on track, and I have to say I agree with everything Tom says, too.

LoGoReDo an interesting, short exercise that reveals a bit of johnson banks' thinking and highlights their fervor. Read the original blog properly, and there's no doubt it's just a bit of curiosity aired for all to see.

Surely it also helps to explain a tiny snip of the design process to those who maybe just think of design – and branding in particular – as little more than expensive smoke and mirrors? That's something all designers will benefit from, not just JB.

Admittedly I often wonder how MJ finds the time to keep their blog updated so frequently, with such interesting content, and written so well. But when you're an expert at something, it's only natural to have the desire to share your knowledge with others.

Maybe that says a lot about the critics on this blog, who come across as nothing more than naive and insulting.
Neil Tinson
2008-10-24 18:28:04

both of them suck cause you can't bake a cake from complete scheiss. This has nothing to do with Mr J.
vos
2008-10-24 22:42:11

by incorporating the initials 'bt' within the 'ball', the logo become more solid.
Sam Smith
2008-10-25 11:57:59

i have to agree with the 'polish a turd' posters on this one, i don't think the redesign improves it in anyway in itself but it has no room for improvement because it was an overpolished turd to begin with, start again and be honest this time BT...
martin
2008-10-25 17:06:32

LOL this is fun to watch:)
Ross
2008-10-26 23:51:42

I'm sorry but I think this exercise devalues the entire industry we work in.

Firstly, clients seeing what Johnson Banks have done will immediately see that rebrands are just a bit of fun, with no thought process involved and taking no time at all.

Secondly, The world device is a well known icon which when standing alone from the 'BT' is instantly recognisable as BT. So any interference with this goes against the whole idea of creating a strong brand.

Thirdly, as Neil previously mentioned, the world icon is often used animated, either exploding or rotating. Has any thought gone into how the text would work when this happens? The world is also very three-dimensional, so to just stick a really flat and weak typeface on top of it looks really odd.

Finally what about this issue of scaling? You just have to visit the BT website, http://www.bt.com, to see how small they use the logo there, nevermind on pens! would the new 'bt' text work at such a small size?

They should have kept this as an in-house project rather than embarrassing themselves and the rest of the Graphic Design industry.
Joe
2008-10-27 09:30:07

Very good project, keep it up JB. Read the blog as much as possible, really interesting and great for us students to see how you guys work.
Hume
2008-10-27 17:57:27

Sorry Tom it has nothing to do with pretension or jealousy and when did one have to be a designer to critique design? It's to do with respect. Whether you like the BT logo or not it was designed with thought, care and attention and lots of people spent a lot of time on it. To say "look we did better in an afternoon" just doesn't wash for me.

How about I come into your office and go over your work and suggest some amends then put the original and the change on the internet?
James Greenfield
2008-10-27 19:57:17

Cheeky indeed.

It's a bit like waiting at the last 500 meters of a marathon, taking a sprint when the runners show up and finish before the rest.
Run your own marathon.

And in this case the result is definitely not better. Sorry.
Mark H
2008-10-28 04:21:28

Ghastly, all of it. Torch the original structure and let a phoenix rise from the ashes. Really.
Katy
2008-10-28 05:02:31

I think the LoGoReDos are great lessons for students and would be good one-day projects to show how little changes in spacing, colour, type, ect can make a big difference. But I'm not so sure about someone of Michael Johnson's position baring his cheeky attempts to the web.

I'd like to see MJ LoGoReDo the D&AD logo. It has always bugged me and it would be interesting to see if MJ would 'critique' so close to home.
Ted
2008-10-28 11:09:07

Absolute shite. Logos are a complete waste of time, design is supposed to be useful. And when they're ugly too, oh really, how misguided.
bastard
2008-10-28 16:15:25

I think the existing version looks a lot better than their attempt.
Gary
2008-10-28 22:17:49

The legibility of this 'improved' version would be terrible when reduced in size for most applications. Also I don't like the idea of the 'b' standing for British being in lowercase.
Creative Agency Manchester
2008-10-29 11:09:34

Couple of things.

Who goes onto a creative blog proclaiming that 'Logos are a complete waste of time'. I Suggest that person's opinion is not worth listening to.

Also, from memory the original piper logo was canned by some marketing genius (sarcasm intended) who decided that the logo showed an organisation not listening to its customers since it has its ear pointed to the opposite direction to the way the figure is pointing.

The T-Mobile rework was a good one. Really interesting and since I work for the company that the original way back when, I can appreciate every point made. I agree with a lot of the points made, but you have to take these things in context. The BT identity on the other hand should never have been a CMYK logo for a company with such vast application uses. Little marketing man syndrome I suspect who has to put his two pennies in. Bring back the piper I say as I still think it looks good today. Globes do bore me. Wolf Olinns challenges the world again and good on them.

Craft is a funny one. Very subjective. But what is interesting is to see a master lay down his methods in black and white. I personally learn my trade from some of the very best craftsmen and you can never learn enough. Good to see this sort of stuff but one will will always be up for criticism if you play with what's established.

On a personal note, I actually never had a problem with the BT type. This experiment has proved to me that is was right in the first place. Why do you need to adhere to the classic conventions of typography after all. If you do, it all stays exactly that. Classical. You can put lipstick on a pig after all. Are we going to start the whole Olympics 2012 debate again. Design is moving forward beyond the Guttenberg days and we should let it.

Hope that forms a balance argument. I'll keep reading the JB blog regardless.
Chris Maclean
2008-10-29 14:35:24

Surely whacking down these 'improvements' only goes to show how quickly new logos can be re-done?. Aren't you biting the hand that feeds you? For years companies such as MJ has survived on the fat pile of A4 that supports the so called 'in-depth' research for a re-branding exercise. Bit hard to justify that now, when the work shown here can be done in about half an hour? I'd call this blog entry 'How to Lose Clients and Annoy People'.
David
2008-10-30 13:27:28

He questioned the design and took time to investigate and produce what he thought was an improvement.

Fair play, there's a dedicated designer right there for you.
Red
2008-11-05 15:09:01

I've thoroughly enjoyed reading down through this debate. And I think it's wonderful that such a debate has arisen.
I think quite a lot of the comments are quite ignorant and ignore or fail to 'get' what the intended exercise aimed to do.
For me the post is not about 'We can do better' but more about asking themselves could anything be done to improve this? We all we all have opinions and we're entitled to them. The exercise is not about re-branding. I value their thoughts and opinions. And it's awesome that they've decided to share their ideas so openly.
I'm a huge fan of the blog. Conversations and debate are always a good thing. Keep up the inspirational blogging!
McPhileen
2011-12-17 08:26:51

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