22 Comments

Women as creative or art directors: Similar phenomena have been studied to death and the reasons are surely the same as in other professions that require long hours away from home, like law and finance. Women don’t want to put in those long hours, making the rational decision (only partly economic) that they’d prefer to have a better balance of life, possibly including having children.

The implication in accounts such as this one is that discrimination is somehow the culprit. For women at higher executive levels, that is probably much rarer than people think.
Joe Clark
2009-01-27 17:13:02

From New York, I can certify a similar observation. Here, the design and advertising professions are almost entirely white, with the occasional spattering of asian, latino, or black (usually in that order).

As far as gender diversity, I'd say it's pretty good. I have worked with men and women of all ranks and positions, including principals and creative directors.

But a quick look at the demographics of design schools make you wonder if the biz is changing. The classes at today's art and design schools are rather diverse, with a strong contingent from Korea and China. I can't say, however, how many of them go on to work in the local industry.

As someone who is non-white, I'd actually welcome that class action lawsuit — bringing that issue to the minds of hiring managers might change things ever so slightly in my favour.
Prescott Perez-Fox
2009-01-27 17:25:55

Without wishing to detract from the political significance of such studies, it is interesting to note that they all rely on visual signifiers. That is, ‘women’, ‘racial identities’, ‘people of differing ages’, ‘physically challenged’ can all be recognised by their appearance. However if the our identities were scrutinised under a differing set of axioms we would have a very different picture of of world.

For example, what often is omitted in these surveys are the categories that cannot be so easily determined. We can think of those who may be treated unfairly due to ‘prison convictions’ ‘mental health problems (clinical depression etc.)’, ‘class identities / poverty’ ‘political affiliations’ etc. We can quickly see that this second category is already implied but unaccounted for in both the common discriminated categories (sexual, racial etc.) but also importantly in the dominant set of ‘white males’.

This could lead us to suggest that their is alternate category of concerns that remains largely unexamined. Thus the ability to define the categorical designation and those who advocate and those who resist it should be equally scrutinised.
MLA
2009-01-27 22:12:47

I've heard there are spanish marketing and ad agencies in the us. And african american as well. Are they mixed enough?
bathblogging.blogspot.com
2009-01-28 02:53:43

When I grew up doing A-levels, I was the only Chinese guy in the whole Chinese community to do Art and Design and it wasn't without a constant battle with my parents. Most first generation born Chinese guys enter computing, accounting, law or science careers as it's considered higher earning. I think the figures here make for interesting stats, but will be mandatory for all HR departments to start ticking off a who's who in the company to include all races and sexes regardless of their disability/alternative communication (hard of hearing)? You can hear the conversations already: "Pam, Gar Leung just quit, find me another Chinese designer before the end of the week or we'll get fined by the Government!"
Gar-Leung
2009-01-28 07:24:09

Which came first? The long working hours we have and in many cases working weekends? Or the idea that women should stay at home and look after the children?

Working long hours is not a modern concept. If anything we work less than our ancestors of just 100 years ago. Many people didn't have a day of rest. the idea of Saturday & Sunday as rest days is very modern indeed.

However, the idea that women are better off at home is very modern indeed. Not so long ago, when most people lived and worked in rural areas, women worked alongside the men and brought the children with them.

In the 19th Century employment laws were introduced to prevent children from working.

The Post-Industrial Revolution Anglo-Saxon masculine work ethic, in my opinion, is the real culprit.

If you look at societies that are less masculine, Sweden for example, it is more common to see almost as many women as men in the workforce - even in computing.

Give societies like Sweden another 50 years and it is likely women will be equally represented at the top as well.

Which is why we need studies like this to remind us that our Socioeconomic structures are not yet optimised to take advantage of ALL the talents of ALL the population.

For me, this is the next stage in the evolution of "The West" i.e.: how countries such as Britain, France, USA Germany etc. stay ahead of the game and prevent megacountries like China, Brazil, India & Russia from economic domination.

With the "BRICs" the discrimination, I would suggest, between male & female is much more pronounced.
James
2009-01-28 10:28:04

@ Joe Clark

To suggest that the reason women aren't at the top because we choose not to be is absurd. Obviously, it is women who carry and give birth to children and not men. A biological imbalance, perhaps. But i know plenty of men who take paternity leave, and plenty of women who stay at work long into their pregnancy, and go back to work soon after giving birth. That's not something that should be held against women.

This is an embarrassing imbalance for the advertising industry, and perhaps there are reasons why there is such an imbalance, and those reasons are just reasons, some might be discriminatory, others might be understandable.

But the fact remains that this figure is not representative of men being inherantly better than women in top jobs. For you to suggest this is, frankly, sexist.
lizzy
2009-01-28 11:14:41

As I remember it, the majority of my graduating class were 'white males'. It seems a bit unlikely that this event was isolated to my university so surely it makes a certain amount of sense that the industry is mainly 'white male'. To my (admittedly relatively unexperienced eye) it seems absurd to bring a lawsuit against an entire industry over it's diversity record, you can only recruit from people who want the job after all.

Are there any stats knocking about for the percentage of none white/female/etc graduates in design and advertising related courses? Surely these would help give a better view of the true employment balance when compared to the above figures?
Ben
2009-01-28 11:57:19

Our office is 42% women, of which 2 are non-white. 1 of the males is non-white. Of the males, 26% are full or partially bald. 100% of workers state they brush their teeth twice a day. Only 4 people use public transport to get to work. 67% make their own lunches. 26% have children. 5.2% of staff are single. 2.6% are called Doug.

None of this matters. People are hired because they're good at what they do.
Paul
2009-01-28 12:15:17

but where are they?! I can think of people in an office of 150...
pristyles
2009-01-28 12:27:15

Interestingly I work for an organisation in the UK, Ideas Foundation, whose key purpose is tackle exactly this issue.

We're working with (and indeed were set up by) some of the biggest global advertising agencies, to work with young people 14-19 in London and the North West of England, and develop programmes which help companies understand that other people have excellent potential too; and to help young people become more ready for work in creative industries. (Part of the issue in the Uk at least is a disparity between higher education training and what industry actually needs so we work with education agencies to address this). http://www.ideasfoundation.org
SallyF
2009-01-30 10:14:32

... typically lost in all these stupid debates about equality and political correctness is the fact that its not sex or race at all... Its about how talented someone is... perhaps white males are just more creative?! Hey life's not fair and balanced, white men cant jump or black men cant swim... xxx
Mr White
2009-01-30 11:14:48

A couple of points are important:
"only 7.9% of the UK population is officially classed as non-white."
It can be too easy to use this statistic to say things are not that bad - The creative industry is heavily concentrated in London where the non-white % is much higher ...20%+

Also it is predominantly White because Ethnic minorities would normally come from a lower income bracket and therefore less likely to follow the higher education route required and also the high competition for placements and low paid 'junior' years which can be prohibitive unless you have extra support/income. This is the same TV /films etc where runners will effectively work for nothing/travel while they establish themselves.

So one other thing missing from the headline White, Male,..... ABC1
David Boyle
2009-01-30 11:27:11

No doubt all depressingly true. Also, as somebody knocking hard on the door marked Middle Age (ok, already in the room and sitting on the comfy sofa) I'm troubled by the amount of 20 something white boys who choose how I should be sold to. Every idea has one agenda - as long as it's edgy and cool (something that once you're past 35 you don't give a damn about) it works. Well for them it does. What do they know about selling to women/older people/non-whites? Phone companies, bars of chocolate, whatever - as long as 20 year old blokes can relate to it, that's fine.
simon
2009-01-30 11:29:42

Sorry Paul, but people are definitely NOT hired because they are good at what they do. That is just an accidental outcome of the interview process.

It is a well accepted fact that interviews are conducted to pick "people like us". I should know - I've just finished being interviewed and the big topic was "would I fit in?".

Being white, male and middle-class the answer was YES.

OK I'm not bald or balding and I brush my teeth (gently) 3 times a day so I am unusual in certain respects. But that's all insensitive propaganda put out by the white middle-classes to deny the latent sexism and racism that exists in most organisations today.

The odds are clearly stacked against minorities and even when white middle-class males become a minority in the workforce they'll stack the odds in their favour again and rule as an "elite".

Simon has already identified this dangerous "elite" minority : the 20 something white boys. They know they are the minority, they know the demographics suggest their purchasing group is more interested in beer and fast-food, but they still dictate to the rest of us.
James
2009-01-30 12:16:14

Shame - Unfortunatly, it is about 'will you fit in?'.
Being british asian female, this is certainly not new to me.

However, it also seems to be in my experience, that no studio goes on without the random but essential asian designer!
Bonnie
2009-01-30 12:49:58

What about basketball, music (especially HipHop) MTV, DJ's and many other areas that are predominantly 'Black' male. I am sick to death of hearing this 'race' problem that whites are racist just because they are in a job that has a predominantly 'white' male environment.

Go to the Universities and colleges and see that there are pretty much NO black males studying in the field of Advertising!

Do you propose for us to give up our livelihood? This is what happened to my relatives in Nazi Germany not so long ago! This liberal Nazi ideology is killing this country!!!!

Those that are paid to seek racism and sexism will find it, just like those paid to look for trouble will of course find it. Their job depends on it whilst we all suffer with this stupidity.
David Weinstein
2009-01-30 16:03:14

My classes here in Seattle are pretty diverse ethnically, usually we have a lot of exchange students from Asia who mostly go back to their home countries when they finish. I have been in many classes however where I am the only man in the room. Whether that will be the case when I get out... I guess we'll see.
Ross
2009-01-30 20:23:05

Lizzy, the fact that women typically do not choose not to slave away for 80 hours a week for years at a time and opt – rationally – for a more balanced life is not “absurd” but a documented fact. May I suggest you read _The Sexual Paradox_ by Susan Pinker to school yourself on the basic neuroanatomy and how it manifests itself in career choices?
Joe Clark
2009-02-21 21:35:56

Additionally, I just thought I’d congratulate Lizzy on Godwin’s-lawing this thread by calling me sexist (and claiming I stated something I didn’t).
Joe Clark
2009-02-22 15:30:05

Hahaha this is an amazing thread. I found it extremely helpful. I am a young photographer looking at marketing my photography to advertising agency creatives. The point of ANY demographic study is not to point out racism or sexism or ageism. The sole purposes is to introduce you to your target market, so you know who your client is and how to advertise to them. I would love to know the average age range of agency creatives as well. I assume the majority of art directors are 30-45 years old. Perhaps I am wrong.
http://FrankieNorstad.com
Frankie Norstad
2009-06-24 02:02:10

Umm, just look at the trolling communities of hardcore hackers. Look at the winners of Quake tournaments. Look at the people having fights on the streets.

Yes yes it's true, there's a gender difference. And I think that we'd have to totally rework the way that the system works for women to be comfortable in it.

That's the thing, it's like some kinda brutal competitive sport, it really is.

The internet is going to be much more feminine. Women do run things differently, they have a different style, it's different rules. Co-operative, rather than competitive.

F¶•k advertising, it's as dead as a doornail. Bring on the internet, with stylish flaunting as only girls do best. We've got another maybe 10 years before the technology gets pretty enough for the girls, though. Stroke that multitouch screen. Tickle your friends. This whole mono-pointer and keyboard business is a male nerd's business, as we all know. There's something phallic about the mouse pointer.
bishopdante
2009-07-07 14:25:42

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