19 Comments

I'm Dutch and you just made me cry - sometimes you shouldn't be aware of what you didn't get ;-)
Thumbs up for the highly creative, innovative approach, that builds on our history without being too chauvinistic or self-conscious.
The best one doesnt' always win I suppose - you always know you take a risk in a pitch if you don't go for the safe route but decide to make a bold, clear statement.
Annedien Hoen | Senior Logo Designer @ impulsant
2009-09-17 16:52:52

Conservative for a country known for it's liberal attitude towards life. Much prefer the 1st solution hands down has much more meaning and contains the essence of the Dutch people. The second is boring and unsophisticated, clipart co-out.
James Cook
2009-09-17 16:54:21

i admire the creativity but i guess it's not that "captivating". but yes, i agree - a lot of "pitch" ideas are fantastic than those that made it. must be a left-brain thing.
John Leyson
2009-09-17 17:33:44

You want clarity with minimal distraction in a branding of a large company/government.

Studio Dumbar brought that to the table.
Coen Brasser
2009-09-17 21:40:30

Nicely done! Although the small version looks somewhat messy, it really does represent the Netherlands. On the other hand I do understand why our government has chosen the current identity.
Michiel de Graaf
2009-09-17 21:41:36

Studio Dumbar won the first minute they created that serif and sans especially for branding
Sandro
2009-09-18 10:02:21

The smaller more simplified icons begin to look like the Peugeot identity... especially next to the blue square!!
Andy Russell
2009-09-18 10:39:16

Peugeot identity is flipped. The Lion is looking to the left. Could be a detail, but for me is a big difference.
Andrew
2009-09-18 12:30:48

I love the design and concept of the Koeweiden Postma approach, but have to agree with Coen Brasser's comments.
Tom Muller
2009-09-18 12:41:46

The 'route 2' lion with the coats of arms and then the simplified version look too much like they're trying to be a map. If the Netherlands was actually shaped like a lion then this would be awesome. But it's not.
nl
2009-09-18 12:59:22

Sorry, but it looks like a school project to me. Too cutesy and messy for me to take seriously as brand for the Dutch Government. The Studio Dumbar option may not be particularly experimental, but it's stately and sober and clear, which is entirely appropriate. I think they made the right choice.
Hard Candy
2009-09-18 14:30:32

Or could it be that the Dutch government thought the proposal (or at least the first one) was a bit too similar to that of their next door neighbours, the German Federal Republic, created by MetaDesign...?

http://www.metadesign.de/html/en/2384.html
timm
2009-09-18 15:32:44

Form my experience I have found the dutch people and it's government to be highly beaucratic despite their liberal reputation; there is shift occuring in The Netherlands at the moment where by the government is trying to 'clean up' the international image of The Netherlands, namely Amsterdam. Dunbar's solution is exactly what the government wanted, an official and authorative identity. It may not be as creative or playful as the denied proposal, but it certainly yells government. As I am writing this comment it reminds me of an article I wrote on design conventions while in The Netherlands this summer. I discuss the differeces between lazy repetative design and design which bares in mind the end viewers predetermined expectations.

http://www.whiteinkblog.com/2009/06/18/designing-by-convention/

To put it simply, this looks like a goverment logo because it needs to look like a government logo.

On a side note, I personally much prefere the creativity and simplicity of the rejected idea.
Youssef Sarhan
2009-09-19 05:37:18

Great works, really sad to see the final style :(
Stefano Picco
2009-09-19 17:16:07

Although both proposals of KP are very creative and beautiful, they seem a little too narrative in their concept. As if everything has to be told in the symbol while forgetting that it will be used in a context that might want some room for a concept to 'breathe' too.

Trying to illustrate what Holland is (rivers and dykes?) is a mission impossible that the second solves better than the first, however both proposals have their legibility issues that are unresolved (yet) as a result. The Dumbar logo is more abstract and is focusing on the communication of the government with it's people. A much more realistic approach in my humble opinion that results in a stronger (albeit less creative) logo.

The comparison with the final logo is somewhat unfair, with a whole presentation showing nice applications working up to a single slide of: "and this is what they chose instead". You cannot help but imagining the audience going "BOOOOOO!"
That the Dumbar version is still favored by a majority of the posters says a lot.
Mark Holtmann
2009-09-20 11:36:01

Conflicting thoughts:
Koeweiden Postma: Their approach to the iconography / wayfinding of the 'route1' version is certainly inspired and challengingly different.

I appreciate the context and direction of the 'route1' concept. I do agree with a few issues raised above and that statement regarding further refinement, would - in my opinion, need to be explored further.
That said, the solution would have been a National Identity to be proud of and something that would have underlined a long tradition of the Dutch mastering at design.

Dumbars solution: Well, refined it certainly is, probably beyond the initial requirements for an Identity such as this. This forgettable mark (The Netherlands is anything but forgettable!) could be for a any Bank, Association or other Bureaucratic parlor.

If this is the result of thorough research into such a multi-facetted nation, then I would be very interested to see the development work (Not linked here, or stated elsewhere.).
I would struggle to believe that there is any serious or memorable result, stemming from research, that would suggest that there is any link between this final solution and that of the country's history or future that is to come.
A conservative and conformist (term I use very losely) approach to what I would imagine would have been an inspiring project, what a waste.

With such a diverse culture that exists in an inherently open country as the Netherlands, the mark which has submitted by Dumbars is, to be quite forward, distressing. When one considers that most creative people would ache to have won such a pitch as this, it makes you wonder if businesses and bureaucracy alike have learned anything in the last 100 years about benefits of design in its truest sense. To use the observation that 'Hard candy' has made: "Sorry, but it looks like a school project to me." (in ref: Koeweiden Postma) I have to say that Dumbars solution is exactly that.
Frazer
2009-09-20 14:23:02

Hmmm, nice job on the first design, but I totally agree with choosing the latter. More appropriate. Imagine getting a letter with the colourful lion from the tax authorities or the ministry of justice.

And indeed it really looks like http://www.metadesign.de/html/en/2384.html...won't say copycat, but striking to say the least.
Marko
2009-09-21 08:59:47

Such a shame oll the work that went into the pitch a really nice concept too but agree it has to fit in the context, I would prefer the first design but you need the authority of a strong (if somewhat dull) logo. The first logo is too playful for government even if it is much better.
jo
2009-09-21 10:34:50

Route 1 is a lovely concept as an idea, but would it reduce well enough for use on all the applications needed. It is quite fussy. Would the polders and dykes concept work at the size needed for business cards? Joining this with the two strips of blue and red further complicates the logo. They would have more successful if they had continued to reduce the elements of the lion to a simpler group of elements.

Route 2 doesn't really connect with me as there are too many elements with the introduction of the squares.

I can see why they chose the Dunbar approach, as it is simple. It's a shame it lacks the conceptual integrity of Route 1 though.
Damon
2009-10-09 16:28:44

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