CR Blog
Peter Saville designs new England shirt
Posted by Patrick Burgoyne, 1 September 2010, 9:25 Permalink Comments (146)
England's footballers will be wearing a new home shirt for their match against Bulgaria on September 3, with graphics designed by Peter Saville
Given the team's pathetic performance over the summer it's perhaps not the best time to be asking long-suffering fans to shell out £49.99 for yet another new kit. In the accompanying press blurb, manufacturers Umbro say that the design "takes its inspiration from the more formal classic shirts of England’s footballing past. Umbro has developed a new longer, more open neckline for the shirt, building on the square neckline that was designed for the away shirt but allowing additional movement across the chest, keeping its shape especially when a player is running."
Saville's contribution is somewhat minimalist. A graphic of multicoloured crosses sits on the shoulders which is, apparently, "evocative of the basting stitches synonymous with bespoke tailoring". They are also meant to represent the diverse nature of modern English society, which should give the Daily Mail plenty to get its teeth into.
UPDATE: We will post an in-depth interview with Saville about the shirt following Friday's game (this is now up, here). However, here are a few extra details that may answer some of the questions raised in the comments:
To those complaining that he "did nothing", Saville's brief from Umbro was strictly confined. He was asked to suggest some ways in which colour could be incorporated into the design of the shirt (the basic look and shape of which had already been determined) while still keeping it predominantly white.
To those of you complaining that the design won't be visible from the stands... that's kind of the point. It looks all white from a distance, then the detail is revealed close-up.
Saville's proposal was that the pattern of crosses would cover the entire shirt and not just the shoulders.
A number of different geometric forms were considered by Saville and Paul Barnes, who worked with him on the project, based on the micro dots and other symbols that some menswear designers have been incorporating into their fabrics. Among the shapes considered was a plus sign, which Barnes then suggested could be transformed into the St George's cross.
We will be talking to Saville about his contribution to the shirt later this week, in the meantime here he is in an Umbro video about the project
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146 Comments
Perfect. Can I have one without the 3 Lions badge, please?
2010-09-01 10:46:24
er... is that it?
2010-09-01 10:46:38
rip off, same as the last one with a few rubbish little crosses
2010-09-01 10:49:00
Good to see the Blue of Scotland still represented!
2010-09-01 10:52:57
Whilst I quite like the thought behind it, I can't help but think that these crosses look a little bit like chicken pox from a distance...
2010-09-01 10:53:15
I became crazy seeing the design like I want to get it and wear it straight away ...
2010-09-01 10:54:43
I was going to buy one without the Peter Saville jockey pattern on the back, then I realised it's just the same as they one they had anyway.
Saville's got to be the best designer at getting away with doing nothing for a lot of money.
2010-09-01 10:57:55
Multi-coloured dandruff… or crucifixes… god knows we need all the help we can get. Better start praying.
That said, I quite like the shirt, although I'll wait a few months and pick one up in ChavScumSports for £20
2010-09-01 10:59:13
I'm not sure I follow the bespoke tailoring point, and the connection with football. Being careful with the term 'average here', but I'm not sure your average England supporter will feel the price is worth the design - will they really appreciate the minimalism design? Doubt it.
The detail is actually quite interesting, but it's a shame you'll never see it on screen when watching the match.
Nice idea, but not really one for the fans.
2010-09-01 10:59:39
a nice shirt ruined
2010-09-01 11:00:49
Agreed, very cheeky to be asking for another fifty quid. Especially for a shirt which hasn't really changed. Though tbh this is a good thing - I like the classic cut homage, long may it continue in whichever iterations.
Just be thankful that you aren't an Everton fan at away matches... http://bit.ly/d4G6Qa
2010-09-01 11:08:14
What is the point in this? Saville did sweet F.A to this apart from add a load of colourful crosses which have no meaning to us. It looks ugly up close, and ugly far away. Bugger spending 50 quid on this crap.
2010-09-01 11:13:00
I like it. It's not just the crosses but the grandad-style collar looks smaller and more streamlined too.
2010-09-01 11:15:17
Do you think the FA were expecting a little more for their money from one of the biggest names in the game?
Pretty underwhelming design, 'different colours represent...yawn...England's diversity'
2010-09-01 11:18:50
This is awful.
It's exactly the same as the last home kit
What is Umbros policy on bringing out new kits? A new one everytime we have a bad result? they must be making a packet!
It's a great example of a designer who obviously has no connection with football, trying to add a wanky touch to something which is above wanky design. Why not beautifully stitched 3 lions or English roses? Something fans can understand, who the hell is going to know that it represents traditional tailoring, in fact, how many english fans have a clue about tailoring?
The colours mean nothing, he's just taken the generic colour pallet from indesign surely?
Can England finally drop Umbro and go with Nike or Adidas, people who make relevant football kits and don't try to disguise their lack of sporting credentials by focusing on tailoring, design and culture?
It's moments like this, and the subsequent photoshoots of our 23 proud failures stood in moody lighting with puffed out chests that make me sick of being an English football fan.
2010-09-01 11:20:28
I think I will stick with my 1990's shirt even if it is 20 years old and pretty tight.
2010-09-01 11:23:12
Since Nike bought Umbro their investment in design has been excellent. The fact Saville has been asked in the first place shows taste and awareness on the part of someone/the team at Umbro. They consistently produce great looking kits and communication showing that good design and football can be happy bed fellows. For this they should be applauded.
Some of the kits this season on show in the Premier League show that we still have a long way to go, Puma in particular are guilty of some crimes against neck lines in my opinion.
With regard this kit it's very much what you would expect from Saville but I like it and it's difference.
2010-09-01 11:26:12
Another point I think worth mentioning which people may or may not agree with is money, and not in the cost of the shirt, but the money footballers get paid.
We hear week in and week out about footballers outrageous salaries, and high living lifestyles. Their world's are full of bespoke tailoring, not ours. Surely referencing 'bespoke tailoring' is not something your 'average joe' can afford? Okay, maybe wearing this shirt will be about aspiration, but if the aspirational message is about tailoring and money then that's the wrong message to send out to fans.
Wearing a football shirt is about pride. Pride to wear your nations shirt in honour. I can't help but reiterate my point above again, but I don't think this design is for the fans.
2010-09-01 11:26:34
The shirt is pictured without a name or number....Surely this would have a detrimental affect on the crosses patern?
2010-09-01 11:30:31
Mat> Think you have missed the point. Bespoke tailoring is a massive part of our heritage and history of fashion. To celebrate something we are truly great at as a nation as Umbro do shows a nod to the past and its relevance to creating sporting kit that works.
2010-09-01 11:31:14
I think it's great that my red, green and blue friends are finally worthy of his condescension.
2010-09-01 11:32:02
Liked.
2010-09-01 11:36:10
James Greenfield> Why not focus on football rather than tailoring? Understand your point, but then why not focus on steam engines or Brunel?
It's a shame we're not great at football otherwise perhaps the design would champion that instead of tailoring details.
2010-09-01 11:39:15
This shirt looks as if it's trying to cross the form over function boundary. I can't see how the crosses 'represent the diverse nature of modern English society'
Looks nice for sure, and I'm sure the dapper gents of the England team will love it, not sure it will look as good with the players name and number on the reverse though?
I'm so glad I went and bought the new (old) shirt for the World Cup only for it to be replaced 3 months later.
2010-09-01 11:39:50
Mat> It's a piece of clothing hence the relevance of tailoring.
2010-09-01 11:42:26
In regards to James' comments I think this new kit further waters down a design which should be as iconic and instant as the St. Georges flag and be a uniform owned by football fans.
Its a FOOTBALL TOP, not a piece of high fashion. I'm a designer and football fan. I don't give two sh**s if we have a great past in tailoring. I want a football kit to reflect our great past in football. Or a nod to a future in football. In fact I don't want anything that isn't football related to be on that kit at all as there is no need for it to be there. The latest design adds absolutely nothing.
When we're losing 1-0 to Bulgaria at half time on the 3rd, I won't be stood at the bar consoling my friends with a half time pint, giving them a pep talk about what a fantastic, international reputation British tailoring has.
Who wears an england top away from a match day? The men of Saville Row or the local 'lad' down in Peckham?
2010-09-01 11:44:48
I'm not English, so I don't really care about the shirt, but I do care that in a short while this will be picked up by the mainstream press as yet another example of money wasted on design (and they'll be right). High profile rubbish like this hurts the entire industry.
2010-09-01 11:45:22
Tom> I think if you look at terrace culture fashion is a major part of it. Heritage brands such as Aquacutum, Burberry and Barbour are widely worn by fans at all club levels. Casual culture (aside from its links to hooligamism) is a British invention and as such I think good designs influence on sporting kit is a great approach. Approaching it from a design point of view makes it no less English and I know many people who bought the last Umbro England kit to wear as it looked great and wore well in a casual get up. This continues that approach where the team can perfom in it, but it also looks great with a pair of jeans and no less English for having some crosses on the shoulders.
2010-09-01 11:55:29
@AK I totally agree. How is this going to look when a name and number is printed on it. Are they just going to slap any old transfer on there, or have they given this a considered thought.
2010-09-01 12:14:04
Take your designer caps off for once...
Typical designers + The Football Fan... Do they REALLY go together?
Do you think what even 1% of Wembley will be sat there talking about Peter Saville? Neither do I
It's a football shirt...
@Tom - 'I want a football kit to reflect our great past in football.' Tom - We've been shit since 1990. We used to be good, now we are not - get over it mate...
Well done Umbro. Well done Sir Saville...
2010-09-01 12:27:27
James,
I don't disagree with your thoughts on terrace culture and fashion brands being both worn and born on the terraces. Nor do I dislike the idea of somehow bringing this into fans wardrobes in a current, contemporary and fashionable way.
What I think though is that there are opportunities for Umbro to exploit the fashion side of England supporters away from the actual on-pitch kit. With the inevitable and subsequent designs of training tops/vest/jackets and official England Club coats and all the rest it should be on these 2nd tier pieces of apparel that we bring in off-pitch celebrations and traditions.
2010-09-01 12:28:18
Love the cross fabric design/idea and the nice neck. I'm sure 'Prada' or Domenico Dolce and Stefano Gabbana will come out and design the Italian shirt and beat us at that too :-p
2010-09-01 12:31:39
"Pretty underwhelming design"
"This is awful.
It's exactly the same as the last home kit"
"Saville's got to be the best designer at getting away with doing nothing for a lot of money."
Is good design not meant to get you talking? Are we all talking about it?
I actually Quite like it.
2010-09-01 12:53:54
QUESTIONS FOR SAVILLE (if you please...)
1. What significance does a purple cross have to English football AND/OR English culture?
2. How much money did you get paid for your 'contribution' to the design? (It's rude, I know, but you never know, he might answer thus giving us all a little perspective.)
3. Will you buy the shirt yourself and wear it, in public?
4. What does the male version of the shirt look like? (That is the female version pictured in the article, right?)
5. Did you design the pink Newcastle shirt, that they wore last season?
2010-09-01 13:06:26
I think, on-the-whole, the kit is well designed and a return to blue shorts will be welcomed by traditionalists. However, Saville and Umbro have to be kidding themselves if they think that small, multi-coloured St. George’s crosses are anything but representative of a minimal, reductive attitude to design.
If we’re talking about the representation of the "diverse nature of modern English society", that should come from the players who wear the shirts and the fans who go to the games. As long as the FA promotes the game at a grass roots level and continues to encourage participants from every walk of life within England to play the game, then why should we need this misfiring gesture across the shoulders of our national team?
The ‘Tailored by Umbro’ branding is in danger of disappearing up its own backside – I’m all for a shirt that fits well and looks as good as possible but I think it’s a pretentious waste of time to make fiddly, pointless tweaks to something that should retain a consistent sense of national footballing identity.
2010-09-01 13:07:42
What, there's no reference to the minuscule crosses being stylistically linked to the St George cross? That would be more easily accepted by your average football fan. Or is the English flag still synonymous with racism? Yawn.
Don't get me wrong, I love simple/minimal design as much as the next person, and it DOES look good, but from a designers point of view the concept/explanation behind this is money for old rope. As most of you have said before me, I don't think that the average football fan will understand this. The vast majority wont even know who Peter Saville is so they aren't even going buy it for the stylish connotations brought about by the saville/umbro partnership.
Matt
2010-09-01 13:14:33
Crap design gets people talking too.
2010-09-01 13:19:42
It's a shame Love Creative didn't get their hands on this - they're good buddies with Umbro and good at engaging, non-pretentious design.
2010-09-01 13:24:00
The tailoring angle comes from the fact that the previous home and current away kits - and possibly this one but I'm not sure - were designed in their construction and use of fabric by Aitor Throup.
Throup is one of the biggest up and coming names in menswear having produced collections for Stone Island - the terrace casuals favourite of course - and through his work with Umbro he has introduced the methods of traditional tailoring into the modern world of performance sportswear which is something Umbro have pushed massively over the last few years. Some of you may be aware of the excellent print by Chris Gray designed as part of this.
As for the kit, it's quite nice in the pics but maybe a touch to similar to the previous kit which I actually thought was quite cool - nice to see the return of blue shorts. I would have to see the shirt with name and number implemented before loving or hating it - but please God not 'Wright-Phillips' '7'!
2010-09-01 13:42:26
@JamesGreenfield I could not agree more and disagree with the bulk of the other comments here. Why is everyone getting their poorly fitting knickers in a twist about the tailoring issue? I'm a huge football fan who has worn a shed-load of strips from a range of manufacturers over many, many years. The bulk of these overpriced garments have been ill-fitting, cheaply and seemingly hastily produced with token, uninspiring design based on logos and branding rather than fashion.
The tailoring issue is surely not one of 'class' or money. That Umbro are pushing the tailored aspect highlights, I think, that they understand that most people dont wear their tops when they're playing football but when they're in the pub, out and about or in the stands. In this increasingly fashion-conscious society the average gent, or lady, doesnt want an oversized top full of garish logos and 'sporty' details. Many would be inclined not to wear their shirt if this was the case.
The issue of the shirt being about football and pride is extremely dated. With clubs charging £50 each season for a 'new' top most modern day football fans understand that their shirt is but another few pounds in the owners pockets and less a sign of support than perhaps it was 15 years ago.
I applaud Umbro's (Nike's) efforts in bringing design and fashion sensibilities to sport and, despite Savill's efforts being minimal and perhaps divisive, it at least shows an understanding of contemporary trends. Those bemoaning the 'tailored' elements are missing the point. It's about creating a product that has relevance outside the football sphere whilst looking impressive when it's at its most prominent, on the football pitch.
2010-09-01 13:49:05
Neil Dring> You have summed up what I was trying to say in a much better fashion.
2010-09-01 14:06:35
no need to change the shirt design. just update the style of the caps that the players receive for international appearances to resemble dunce's hats then everyone's happy. No-one would be arguing about the relveance of that design, anyway :o)
I wonder how much Saville's was for doing this? a depressingly high figure no doubt.
I reckon the strategy behind this as an attempt to make the football shirt a fashion item that can function separately from football. Lord knows, no-one in their right mind would be wearing an England shirt out of sporting pride these days, would they? Are our national side really anything to be proud about. Overpaid underachievers at best.
2010-09-01 14:20:11
The crosses, they're for motion capture, right? Surely they're not merely ornamental. Next you'll be telling us that sports kit design is all a big con geared towards parting us with our hard-earned!
2010-09-01 14:47:47
Are you having a giraffe!!
Especially after the performance at this years World Cup the cheek to essentially re-merchandise and sell what is essentially the same shirt beggars belief. And you wouldn't be able to see the Peter Saville design if you were more than 5 yards away, this is nonsense.
A
2010-09-01 14:50:00
WHAT A LOAD OF WELL>>>SHOULD BE PERFECT FOR THE ENGLAND SQUAD!
2010-09-01 14:56:47
PERSIL - will it shift those unsightly little mothers?
2010-09-01 14:58:46
Is anybody else thinking Elvis in his rhinestone / Las Vegas period?
2010-09-01 14:59:29
Just because he's a well known artist, doesn't mean his designs are always right. To be frank, what a load of rubbish.
2010-09-01 15:00:42
ha ha ha!!!!
nice joke
2010-09-01 15:01:52
It's quite smart.
2010-09-01 15:05:00
...looks like my Grandad's vest with some hundreds and thousands sprinkled on the shoulders.
"...evocative of the basting stitches synonymous with bespoke tailoring"
EH?!
....Hhhm yeah, particularly synonymous with the fast pace, aggression and competitive edge of football as well. Admit it Peter, you just thought little multi-coloured crosses 'looked nice'.
Designers don't half talk a load of old t0ss sometimes.
2010-09-01 15:05:09
I doubt the average punter will appreciate the minimal design of the new shirt. A full backprint airbrushed vignette of a white lion breathing fire at the moon whilst crapping on something German would bring those fifties rolling in. Especially if you got a discount on the same print but for a SUV spare wheel-cover.
2010-09-01 15:06:35
Answers for Chris (earlier):
5) Newcastle did not wear a pink shirt last season. It was yellow.
-5 smug designer points for you, sir.
2010-09-01 15:06:41
I thought it was September 1st, not April 1st?
2010-09-01 15:07:00
Talk about profiteering from past success. What a load of old tosh. Has the world gone completely mad? We all loved Savilles factory artwork, but I think it's about time we let the old dog lie. On the other hand is this taking the piss out of a load of over paid under skilled w@*$kers, in which case it;s genius.
2010-09-01 15:09:48
From Joy Division to bottom of the division.
2010-09-01 15:12:00
is there a mens / boys version planned?
2010-09-01 15:15:09
Neil gets this just about spot on from a design perspective. A few other points:
- Umbro is now wholly owned by Nike so people should stop saying that The FA should get rid of them and do a deal with Nike or Adidas because 1) it's not appropriate for a german company to design our shirt and 2) nike our 100% behind and involved in the design process anyway. their aim is to make Umbro as big a brand as Converse (which they also picked up at a knock-down price) so don't expect Umbro to be going anywhere fast (as witnessed by the news that the deal goes to 2018 now).
- all the guys hewre linking England's poor performance on the pitch (particulalry in SA) to another shiret are absolutely entitiled so to do as clealry this is a valid position. Umbro are sensitive to this, the players (believe it or not) are sensitive to this but the new contract allows them to do this, PR materilas and POS collateral has to be created to support a retail push - this is just business, both retail and football and yes it's big... and by the way even with a new shirt now it comes nowhere close to most PL clubs who have 3 kits a season in effect (bar Arsenal). this is just the modern football world.
- finally the Umbro deal is The FA's single biggest revenue generator after broadcast and it simply needs the cash to fund all the things it does in the world of football (and England is actually just the tip of the iceberg for them in terms of funding eg for youth development, County FAs etc etc). this isn't about the top players funnily enough, it's about the 6 million men and women boys and girls who play either 5-aside or 11-a-side football every week in England and without all the relevant funding sources we would be even worse odff than we currently are!
By the way, it's a nice shirt but hopefully they will stick wioth all white which as my old Mum points out "at least looks very smart".
2010-09-01 15:17:00
james greenfield> But it's not actually a tailored garment is it? Personally, I thought the previous effort looked like some kind of airtex netball blouse. This is no better.
2010-09-01 15:17:48
With so many questions asking if the design is 'good' or 'relevent', maybe it's worth questioning whether hiring in a high-profile-graphic-designer-collaboration was actually necessary in the first instance?
Regardless of people liking or disliking what the shirt looks like, was any additional embellishment to Throups original design needed? (Especially an addition that many people don't seem to completely 'get'.
I'm sure a huge amount of money has been poured into this project and, controversy aside, I'm sure Umbro will sell a massive number of the shirts – but has the shirt actually been improved?
Or was that not the point?
2010-09-01 15:18:33
@andy pickup "I can't see how the crosses 'represent the diverse nature of modern English society" - they're different colours, innit?
all pretty boring and the multi-coloured crosses just don't fit. preferred the retro look of the previous kit, but at least the umbro badge and the 3 lions are well-proportioned this time.
2010-09-01 15:22:26
This is really is a yoke.
2010-09-01 15:22:42
I went to a lecture at the V&A where Mr. Seville basically said that he is 'over' Design. I thought it was an arrogant statement. He implied that his current role as acting creative Director of the city of Manchester is far more meaningful and noble than album covers, fashion and all that frivolity, everything that made him. Ahem.
Well, Mr. Seville, if you're over it , then step-aside, and leave it for the young designers who are still excited about Design, who aren't jaded and have something genuine and passion-based to communicate when granted the RARE PRIVELEGE to design something as revered as the England jersey.
2010-09-01 15:24:47
.. it'll look good on neil diamond though - live on stage signing "I'm a Believer"
2010-09-01 15:27:12
What a waste of time and money - surely someone could have come up with something more creative and inspiring. Weak design - just like our England players!
2010-09-01 15:30:38
The logo should have been a bit bigger.
2010-09-01 15:31:53
It's quite dreary really, isn't it? but what a response from your readers. I've never seen this many comments on any of your features
2010-09-01 15:32:59
That last England top must be the shortest lived top in International football.
Did they through it in the wastepaper basket and set fire to it, followed by endless brushing teeth and showering ala Ace Ventura?
2010-09-01 15:33:35
As wide of the mark as one of Fat Frank's mis-hits.
2010-09-01 15:35:16
Where's the star gone?
2010-09-01 15:37:19
I love design, but unfortunately it looks like Mr Saville has 'fixed it' for him to walk away with a pocket full of cash for doing absolutely nothing... mind you, maybe he learned this trick from the England team at the World Cup?
2010-09-01 15:44:55
+ + + + THAT'LL BE A MILLION QUID PLEASE!
2010-09-01 15:51:48
...and this is the ultimate shirt that will make England a real football team.
beh..
2010-09-01 15:52:09
I guess this argument is a Saville row?
2010-09-01 15:52:25
That's where I left the pools coupon
2010-09-01 15:57:56
it takes the GERMANS to design the best National Strip in the UK
http://www.scottishfootballdirect.com/Category/64-scotland-home-kit.aspx
2010-09-01 16:04:55
The small, multi-coloured St. George’s crosses really don't add anything to the shirt, unless of course you're a girl. As someone else said, they're way too small to be noticed. How does the away shirt look w/this design?
I like the overall cut of the shirt, but agree few fans are not going to appreciate or pay extra for fabric, cue the knock-offs.
Actually, I'm thinking England would be much better off wearing Spain's 2010 shirt
2010-09-01 16:10:19
Ah yes football. That's the game where overpaid illiterate 'sportstmen' make tonks of themselves playing against what we call underdeveloped countries. So worthwhile. Find some more useful to put your talents to Peter.
2010-09-01 16:12:31
I like the design (although it is a rip off to the fans as it is basically the same shirt as the last one). Just a shame its Umbro......If England had Nike or Adidas then I would certainly buy it. Even Kappa or Puma would be better. All my mates feel the same way too.
I associate Umbro with all our failures in every competition except 66 and of course 82. Poor quality, cheap brand for a poor quality football team. It would also be nice if the shirt didn't change for a while now. The FA need reminding that it is a NON PROFIT MAKING ORGANISATION!
2010-09-01 16:15:07
Those little marks on the back of the shirt put me in mind of what Elvis's jumpsuits must have looked like when the Rhinestones had fallen off...
2010-09-01 16:16:14
Looks beautiful.
2010-09-01 16:24:37
St George's cross is invariably better than that of the English players + he asked for it to be small because he is embarrassed by being associated with the England football team.
2010-09-01 16:31:30
What a load of pretentious nonsense. Saville, have a word for goodness sake. It is football, not a profound statement about the state of humanity on these shores.
2010-09-01 16:32:22
Whoah this is bad timing! Are we not over the classic look, its been used to recent-death? (i am) England where awful in the world cup and could now seriously do with a complete design refresh... the piddling cross motif would be better suited on a Paul Smith hanky!!! Saville (though i'm a hugh fan of your work) = pretentious = yawnfest!
2010-09-01 16:32:57
really? quite sad. i am all for clean and simple but this is just a bit too "nothing like". regardless you guys. like us, italians, need winning!
2010-09-01 16:39:04
Some really surprises responses on here, lets not go go back to the days when we had a kit like the new Scottish kit, where they ran out of ideas and stuck the crest as a pattern on the front. Everyone seems to think that people that wear a football shirt are fat, bald and throw pints of lager over themselves, when in fact from my experience as a season ticket holder, a lot of people take a lot of pride in what they wear to the match, it might appeal to some but their pringle sweater, or their stone island jacket is acknowledged amongst their peers, and they try hard to look their best. This shirt is a nod to that in my opinion in the attention to detail, that those brands they covert offer... if people want to stay with the traditional look, then buy the current away shirt, and grow some sideburns.
Also the idea that it is exactly like the old shirt is an odd remark, it is similar in that it is white and has the badge on it, but thats where it ends, it has a completely different neck line. And the nod to the 'tailored' idea is that you can get these shirts in your chest measurement, not just S M L XL XXL XXXL, which is pretty good for a football shirt I'd say.
2010-09-01 16:47:33
I think this is so far off the mark of the average footballer it's untrue!
'evocative of the basting stitches synonymous with bespoke tailoring' - How many of you wear tailored suits?
How many of the blokes sat in the pub watching England game own any tailored garments? This link to Saville Row is a very southern point of view.
Also, i'm sure this garment will look the part on the toned, muscular England players, but how will it look on Dave the fat builder and Steve the portly plumber down the boozer?
Don't get me wrong, i like the design, I love the way it combines sport and fashion - i just feel it's been designed with an elitist perspective - not for the masses.
2010-09-01 16:51:53
Neil gets this just about spot on from a design perspective. A few other points:
- Umbro is now wholly owned by Nike so people should stop saying that The FA should get rid of them and do a deal with Nike or Adidas because 1) it's not appropriate for a german company to design our shirt and 2) nike our 100% behind and involved in the design process anyway. their aim is to make Umbro as big a brand as Converse (which they also picked up at a knock-down price) so don't expect Umbro to be going anywhere fast (as witnessed by the news that the deal goes to 2018 now).
- all the guys hewre linking England's poor performance on the pitch (particulalry in SA) to another shiret are absolutely entitiled so to do as clealry this is a valid position. Umbro are sensitive to this, the players (believe it or not) are sensitive to this but the new contract allows them to do this, PR materilas and POS collateral has to be created to support a retail push - this is just business, both retail and football and yes it's big... and by the way even with a new shirt now it comes nowhere close to most PL clubs who have 3 kits a season in effect (bar Arsenal). this is just the modern football world.
- finally the Umbro deal is The FA's single biggest revenue generator after broadcast and it simply needs the cash to fund all the things it does in the world of football (and England is actually just the tip of the iceberg for them in terms of funding eg for youth development, County FAs etc etc). this isn't about the top players funnily enough, it's about the 6 million men and women boys and girls who play either 5-aside or 11-a-side football every week in England and without all the relevant funding sources we would be even worse odff than we currently are!
By the way, it's a nice shirt but hopefully they will stick wioth all white which as my old Mum points out "at least looks very smart".
2010-09-01 16:59:07
This is an utter disgrace. We just got a new kit a year ago and here we are with another one. In the old days people released a kit every two years, which was heavy for hard working fans, but now everyone releasing kits annually, rising season ticket prices, this isn't a sport at all anymore. Admittedly, this is the best kit since that retro top from Italia 90, but I'm not buying it for £50.
2010-09-01 17:24:51
nearly as bad as the Admiral kits.
Dreadful waste of time.
Designed for non football fans.
2010-09-01 17:33:28
You'll never be able to appreciate something with this much detail when looking at it as a 569 x 338 pixel image on screen. For that reason, I'll give Saville the benefit of the doubt and wait to pass judgement until I see it on a hanger. After all, and from what I can see, the cut of the shirt looks interesting.
And, I suspect Saville will have had little or no say in the typeface used for the player numbers. For me, this is going to be the deciding factor. If Saville has worked on the numeric typography, then I think it'll be a real corker.
The 'beautiful game' just got a little more attractive...
2010-09-01 17:41:53
I just think its a clever ploy by umbro / nike to get cool folk onto its rosta to design and promote products. Look at Adidas and the wealth of stars they can choose from who are not connected to sport.
And on a football top front. £50 is small change compared to some of the adidas ones going for 100 plus if you want the tight fit shirts.
2010-09-01 17:52:12
Why didn't the Saville guy go the Spitfire/Hurricane route; motifs of opponents shot down stuck on the side of the shirt?
Because, he knows no opponent of England will be shot down when it actually counts - that's why.
2010-09-01 17:54:08
I will be interested to see the numbers on the back as well as the player's names. what font will it be????????
2010-09-01 18:03:29
I like the shirt, the cut, the shape the collar etc, it feels different to most other 'generic looking' countries shirts (although not that different from England's last one)
But when it comes to the graphics on a football shirt, the detailing, I can't help but feel this all sounds like it's trying to hard, like it has to have meaning... multi coloured St George's Cross (that look a bit like basting stitches) oh and they represent our multi coloured society, come on! this is a football shirt, not the rebrand of a city! and it's this that gets under my skin. Personally, I really don't care, as a football fan who has bought my team's shirt continually over the years, I have never once questioned the ideas/motivations behind the pattern on the shirt, as I expect many people haven't either, my reaction has always been like the responses to this post, I either like it or I don't.
Now I don't know what level of involvement Saville has had?, maybe he has been tasked with looking at the type on the shirt, like Paul Barnes did for Puma... http://fontfeed.com/archives/world-cup-typography-paul-barnes/ now that could be interesting? But I can't help but think this being Umbro trying to add an unnecessary value to just another new kit.
2010-09-01 18:28:47
I like the shirt, the cut, the shape the collar etc, it feels different to most other 'generic looking' countries shirts (although not that different from England's last one)
But when it comes to the graphics on a football shirt, the detailing, I can't help but feel this all sounds like it's trying to hard, like it has to have meaning... multi coloured St George's Cross (that look a bit like basting stitches) oh and they represent our multi coloured society, come on! this is a football shirt, not the rebrand of a city! and it's this that gets under my skin. Personally, I really don't care, as a football fan who has bought my team's shirt continually over the years, I have never once questioned the ideas/motivations behind the pattern on the shirt, as I expect many people haven't either, my reaction has always been like the responses to this post, I either like it or I don't.
Now I don't know what level of involvement Saville has had?, maybe he has been tasked with looking at the type on the shirt, like Paul Barnes did for Puma... http://fontfeed.com/archives/world-cup-typography-paul-barnes/ now that could be interesting? But I can't help but think this being Umbro trying to add an unnecessary value to just another new kit.
2010-09-01 18:29:58
Hmm...
2010-09-01 19:06:37
See it on a hanger???!!?!!?!!?!!? What about from row bloody z? Utter bollix, canvas of society my arse. Gives designers a bad name when this tosh gets out.
2010-09-01 19:15:40
@del Carmen......this shirt is supposed to embody our multicultural society with its little crosses on the back. Well if we are all supposed to be happy with that then I don't see an issue with having a German company make our kit (after all, even our manager is Italian). The Scots have Adidas by the way!
If the FA wanted to sell more shirts (and lets face it, thats exactly what this is all about however anyone wants to dress it up) then they should dump Umbro (which Nike would probably have to liquidate as a consequence) and get Nike to put their swoosh on it. Either that or sign up with Adidas who clearly make the World's best strips. It comes to something when you see Englishmen walking around the streets wearing Spain or even Argentina shirts. The Argentina kit, in my opinion, is the best looking strip in World football.
It is a very small point but unfortunately Adidas or Nike have more appeal to the masses due to their heritage as great sporting brands. Nike are throwing money at the problem because they know Umbro isn't a fashionable brand.
The tailoring is a nice touch but its not important and it makes England even more of a laughing stock than we already are! We are a poor team who are dressed up like a bunch of nancy boys as the other counties run rings around us. Umbro's name is also synonymous with failure for England except on the one occasion their logo wasn't present on the shirt in 66.
Its very sad but it is a regular topic of conversation that crops up between me and my mates. I am in my early 30s and I am an ex professional player. A few of my mates are also ex players but we all say the same thing......if the kit wasn't Umbro, we'd buy it!
God I hate Umbro!!!
2010-09-01 19:21:07
Mister 100! That's me.
2010-09-01 19:56:12
lovely.. i'm affraid people who doesn't like this are somehow completely missing the point..
2010-09-01 20:21:13
Since they did poorly in the World Cup drawing more attention to the team is a bad idea. Anyway, new designs should only be done for World Cups.
2010-09-01 21:40:58
Shirt is awful, what's with the multi-coloured crosses? Being ripped off, only brought the new one out prior to the world cup.
2010-09-01 21:57:23
Why change the colour of the St George's flag? leave it red.
2010-09-01 22:11:23
The question is do i put it in with the whites or the colours wash?
2010-09-01 23:26:01
"...among the shapes considered was a plus sign, which Barnes then suggested could be transformed into the St George's cross."
Ba ha hah aha ha ha ha ha ah ah aha ha ha ah ahh a ha!
Money for absolutely nothing. Shame on you Umbro and shame on you Saville.
2010-09-02 00:07:00
I would love to have seen the other ideas and designed proposed. I'm sure no doubt the FA and Umbro were hard to please.
At the end of the day. I think the design is.
• Unique
• Different
• Challenging
• Possesses subtle style
Easy to bag someone. What would you do?
2010-09-02 00:53:53
The fact that the FA have even got a iconic graphic designer to design the kit is exciting. It means there will be more exposure and raise the profile of the English team. I don't know why it's getting such a hard wrap, I think it's stylish and confident and pushes the boundaries of the original shirt design. Fair play Saville
2010-09-02 01:06:19
bespoke tailoring? this is Umbro right..? diverse nature of modern English society? .. its the same old song..
2010-09-02 01:53:43
What a pointless exercise and it took 2 of them to come up with this 'design'! Can't wait to see how effective the design is on TV, suspect the team will end up looking like they have dandruff which might detract from how bad they are playing.
Ignoring the Peter Saville bit, the shirt is an iconic design and I think the neckline is improved. Definately not worth the price tag though.
2010-09-02 08:52:57
Football shirts are generally seen from a great distance via the stands or the TV. Those little crosses, as elegant as they might be (although the multiple colours might suggest other nations?), will appear nothing more than fleks of dandruff at best. Poorly thought through Mr Saville…
2010-09-02 09:56:50
I am slightly confused. Why does an England shirt need 'graphics'? I actually really like the cut of the shirt but think the design (which seems a little pointless) looks like a quilt my Grandma used to have. I think this ultimately could put the average (non-designer) England fan off.
2010-09-02 10:03:47
I bet this was actually designed for the World Cup in SA but in true Saville style, wasn't ready in time.
2010-09-02 10:18:41
Me no likey.
2010-09-02 10:40:00
Why bother? It looks like an Elvis shirt from the back
2010-09-02 11:04:34
Coming from a person who really dislikes football, perhaps less is more? Let's see the terraces looking as they did in the 50's and 60's - everyone in suits, ties and hats. The whole football thing is lacking elegance. If everyone dressed up the thugs would lose interest.
2010-09-02 11:09:06
You can change the shirt as many times as you like - it's the players and the entire structure of the FA that needs to change if we ever want fans to wear the three lions with pride again!
2010-09-02 11:43:00
It's a classic! Refined dignity from a bygone era... it's a shame the majority of our poorly dressed modern day society who'd rather be seen in a tracksuit from JD Sports won't get it. But that's life....
The shirt is classic and simple yet the detail is what sets it apart – I've probably not worn a football shirt since I was 13 years old. I could be tempted.
Thank you for the education, inspiration and ongoing debate.
2010-09-02 12:06:00
I can't help but think this is a clever trick put together by our friends at Umbro to get us to talk to them and rile people up into having an opinion...If it's real, here's mine...
This shirts screams 44 degrees with Dirt, not 44 years of hurt. "Manufacturers Umbro say that the design "takes its inspiration from the more formal classic shirts of England’s footballing past". WHY? We need to move forward. A new design for a new England. Dear Umbro, Bobby Robson and Bobby Moore are never coming back, it's over, move on.
We need a shirt that shows strength, unity and a new beginning, not a Paul Smith knock-off covered in hundreds-and-thousands. How can any England player honestly wear this with pride? I'm sure Andorra would quake in their boots when we turn up looking like an explosion in an ice-cream van. Rooney in a caravan for Nike and an Ice-cream van for Umbro.
Frankly I'm embarrassed that this is the shirt that represents my country on the world football stage.
Sadly I fear that this is another example of how disconnected the whole England situation is. I like white but we need fight. Come on Umbro, surely it's not too hard to gauge the country's indifference to Team England. You have a big role in turning this around. Tailored for England was SUPERB, what's going wrong?
Inspire us!
2010-09-02 12:30:00
sprinkles. they look like sprinkles. one big frosted cupcake. ya i could beat that at football too.
2010-09-02 13:45:05
I see Creative Review have included an update that they'll be giving Saville what equates to a 'right of reply' on this. Creative Review: Saville can talk direct on here if he wants. Don't piss your pants because he's upset, relaying key points of a private message he sent you and give him even more priviledge.
2010-09-02 20:38:00
Beautiful! I like the designs on the soulders.
2010-09-02 20:47:51
poor design for poor players. enough said.
2010-09-03 01:57:58
all the guys hewre linking England's poor performance on the pitch (particulalry in SA) to another shiret are absolutely entitiled so to do as clealry this is a valid position. Umbro are sensitive to this, the players (believe it or not) are sensitive to this but the new contract allows them to do this, PR materilas and POS collateral has to be created to support a retail push - this is just business, both retail and football and yes it's big... and by the way even with a new shirt now it comes nowhere close to most PL clubs who have 3 kits a season in effect (bar Arsenal). this is just the modern football world.
2010-09-03 03:58:20
[Deleted by moderator]
Reading some of the design rhetoric above gives me a watery jaw! Stop looking for a deeper meaning and wake the f*** up! It's a football shirt and utter garbage at that.
Some idiot suggesting 'the poorly dressed modern day society won't get it' well, your designing for football fans not people who 'GET' design. Football fans don't want to search for a deeper meaning or even begin to wander into a design fantasy land where everything needs explanation or a purpose.
When will designers understand the need to design for the audience against a brief rather than designing for designers.
2010-09-03 09:30:00
What a pile of crap.
Football shirts aren't intricate. they are well considered graphic slabs of colour. Name me an England shirt you remember? Red with white neck of 66 final. 1982 single horizonal red and blue stripe surround a v neck. 1990 white with blue collar. Simple, memorable, iconic.
For a man who created so much iconography for the Hacienda, this is very lame. If I was honest, I loved the 2010 World Cup top. Design by CP company, it was classical, well fitted and well considered. Values not divorced from the terraces.
2010-09-03 11:11:03
Delightfully underwhelming?
Thoughtfully pointless?
A well observed piece of mark-missing design?
... nope, sorry, I can't find the words today.
2010-09-03 11:40:17
Even though I rate Pete. That has to be on a par with the Olympic logo.
2010-09-03 11:44:05
True football fans do understand design, are normally up to date with fashion trends, if not trend setters themselves. A quick look back in history would see how the 'travelling' football fans from all over the UK have influenced buying trends of the general UK public. So to intimate that the subtle design would pass the 'common' fan by is totally off the mark. They would never wear colours anyway. This is for mass market, 'football tourists', and it still fails to impress. It's not just the design, it's the rationale that slightly offends.
2010-09-03 11:46:23
Pathetic design. I mean, invent something new, create waves, stir up emotion, take peoples breath away, distinguish the national team from all others, be a leader..... [Deleted by moderator]
2010-09-03 11:59:00
Nylon shirts are shit. Nylon shirts will always be shit. End of.
2010-09-03 12:16:29
That, my son, is a well dodgy kit...
2010-09-03 12:26:17
@Seven of Clubs
"I see Creative Review have included an update that they'll be giving Saville what equates to a 'right of reply' on this. Creative Review: Saville can talk direct on here if he wants. Don't piss your pants because he's upset, relaying key points of a private message he sent you and give him even more priviledge."
It's not a "right of reply" – it's an interview relating directly to the design work which we're in the process of putting together for the blog.
Mark Sinclair
2010-09-03 14:29:24
Perhaps this design really is about football – for me the sprinkling of tiny crosses is reminiscent of helping my grandma complete her regular entry to the ‘Spot the Ball’ competition – a nice memory actually. Unfortunately for the England players in this case it seems the guess is ‘the ball’s behind you!'
2010-09-03 14:46:50
The response count must be nearing the highest ive seen after a blog posting!
Will be interesting to hear if any commnets are made from the likes of the Match of The Day mob, or Colin Murray on Five Live.
From a design perspective, while its good that it generates discussion its bad that most will see it as an excuse kick the design industry. Fair play though i wont be tempted to shell out the money for it.
Wonder if other national teams have the similar fashion woes?
2010-09-03 15:18:46
Was it completely by Saville or did Postman Pat....er sorry i mean Mr.Capello have any input?
2010-09-03 15:21:13
Thats shocking. I thought I was looking at the back of one of Elvis's vegas jump suits.
2010-09-03 15:21:16
You won't catch me wearing that!
2010-09-03 15:48:54
The lads have just come on the pitch. Duh... I need a an HDTV... LOL
2010-09-03 20:06:12
@Saville and Barnes
"Among the shapes considered was a plus sign, which Barnes then suggested could be transformed into the St George's cross."
To quote Philippe Starck: "We are in ze shit"
2010-09-03 20:18:23
I don't mind the shirt I'll buy it but wot f's me off is we had a new shirt in march now 6 months later with a piss poor world cup here's another 1. When's the new away shirt due January ?
2010-09-03 22:15:39
Love the grandad neckline, but does the shirt have to be split in two down the middle so far ?
Obviously, it will be middle aged fat blokes like me who will buy it, so will it come in XXXL ?
Of course, you could buy the World Cup shirt and rip the collar off, selling at a tenner a pop in my local shop this week.
2010-09-04 01:32:01
This is fantastic in so many ways. Brave and refreshing. An entirely appropriate response to the brief. Well ahead of the pack as usual Mr Saville, well done.
2010-09-04 11:52:05
This is football ! The players wear the shirt proudly and no matter how bad it looks, they have no choice! What the designers have forgotten is that the people who make the game what it is - (The Fans !!!!!!!) buy and wear the kit too - it is a tradition that has stood for over 50 years! Can you see the football fans of England (all over the world) clambering to get their hands on a "stylish" shirt with little colorful insignificant crosses on it????
In my mind, give the design to someone who actually has the presence of mind to think of the fans, not someone who wears his ego on the backs of the England Football Team and their loyal supporters!
Take a leaf out of the South African football shirts for the 2010 World Cup. The shirts were contemporary in design, representative of the diversity in the country and worn by 30 Million Supporters.
This shirt is a pathetic waste of energy, money and time. Sadly so !
The fact that the FA accepted it is pathetic too. Try thinking of the people who pay their money to watch the players play!
Mike
2010-09-04 17:15:59
i watched the match on friday, and i only noticed that the numbers are blue, i didn't know about the crosses untill they told me on the telly. i dont really understand the need for a new home shirt since were not due for one untill next year aswell as the fact we only just got a new away shirt, the shirt is just a pointless attempt to get some money as umbro know fans will buy it, however i think they will be quite shocked at just how few do.
2010-09-04 23:45:07
Hey @Roger I've got an idea ... don't buy the shirt? It's not a rip-off because you haven't purchased it. Football shirts are all rip-off's anyway.
Why is it that football supporters feel the need to buy every iteration of their teams shirt design?
Gotta catch 'em all!
2010-09-07 14:23:06
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