65 Comments

Is it just me or are they simply recycling the approach from the Eurostar project? Make a 'flexible' image, throw a few different colours at it, and slap it everywhere? Once you've seen the main image, everything else is predictable.
Bill
2011-07-12 13:27:18

I'm not a huge fan of the new identity, it reminds me too much of a wine label from the early naughties I'm afraid. I did like Jamin's proposal a lot. Really simple and graphic. Although if I'm being picky, I think it's a little easy to miss the n m m in the waves. I'll sit comfortably on the fence and say somewhere between the two would be a good response!
Charlie
2011-07-12 13:32:01

Let me guess, it started with a sculpture. What is the fascination with SomeOne at the moment? They're not doing anything groundbreaking, or even particularly clever, but they seem to be the darling of the design press.

I bet that identity is going to be a nightmare to implement.
Anon
2011-07-12 13:36:29

It's a beautiful identity and has so many application possibilities, as has been shown here. It's intelligent design.

I particularly like the royal connotation, as it's a subtlety done. Some will get it, some won't. It's not a feature, but a secondary detail.

And, some might say it looks like the type of splash you'd see on the side of a bottle of Miller beer, but then that would be unfair. Besides, the use of splash here is far more objective. (A bottle of beer is beer bottle shaped, so I know what I'm looking for and I know what's inside it!).

I think we're going to see more of this type of branding in the next year or so. Much like the craze of filling type with imagery post Natural History museum re-brand a few years back.

Bravo, SomeOne. Fab work.
Ryan Dixon
2011-07-12 13:41:25

Sorry not to my taste, the splash seems either weak or overused on the signage but most of all i dont think the type sits comfortably at all, okay its just an opinion but its looks to be just bolted on the side and the use a serif next to that image to me is odd as well, the graduate pieces are far more inviting to a place of learning and have scope for invention.
John
2011-07-12 13:47:30

Thanks for the mention again Patrick! I've now just started my internship at SomeOne! Exciting times...
Jamin
2011-07-12 13:55:48

Reminds me of Wolff's rebranded VOX cinemas in the UAE (previously Cinestar). Not really groundbreaking but slick. Lots of black doesn't work so well in actual implementation...
JE
2011-07-12 13:56:28

I'm a big admirer of SomeOne's work and thinking, (particularly like their work for London 2012). It must have been a really tough brief to try and represent the Royal Observatory, Planetarium & The Queen's House all in one marque. I see what they've tried to do with the splash (turning it gold to represent a crown, etc.) – but this seems more like 'badging' rather than a Brand 'World' as Mr Manchipp would describe? A splash is such a fluid and organic thing that it seems a shame when the same visual is rigidly 'badged' onto different applications – be it different crops of it.

—
I'm particularly keen on Jamin's proposal, a smart marque which is simple, iconic and flexible. Nicely done!
Sean Rees
2011-07-12 14:04:13

While I like the idea of a crown of water, I can't help to associate the O2 Bubble. The black and white version is really elegant, though.
In general, the Logo doesn't really say museum to me, it has a very consumer-brand feel to it (maybe that was the idea… ), especailly the cropped version. There, the image is literally watered down to bland, exchangeable stock footage. The golden water… a whole cascade of associations
Katrin
2011-07-12 14:05:59

This is a terrible and boring identity. I don't get how SomeOne are in the design press so much.

Like someone else has mentioned, this is the carbon copy approach to Eurostar (which has already dated). Do a CGI of something abstract, get a few screenshots of it from different angels and then slap it on a bunch of collateral.

I don't understand the rationale, especially for the lazy versions for Royal Observatory and Queens House. Why a splash of water?
Random
2011-07-12 14:07:40

The Queens House splash looks a little... urine coloured.

Apart from that I don't mind it like I didn't mind the euro rebrand - and I can see they have had very similar approaches used to get the results.
LO Acki
2011-07-12 14:35:33

Jamin Glea's proposal has a better underlying idea IMO.

The marque, and the execution on the shopping bag are spot on. The stock images of buoys and lighthouses etc on the other materials are a little clumsy, but I imagine if a brand agency like SomeOne applied their skills and experience to the job it would turn out better than their own watery crown concept.

Kudos to them for giving him an internship in any case.
Phil C
2011-07-12 14:40:29

All I see is a stock image to be used to advertise mineral water or piss.

Nice execution though.
Rob
2011-07-12 14:44:00

Random I wouldn't say it's 'terrible and boring', maybe it could have been pushed further but we've not yet seen the identity in its fullest form. I would say it looks different to the usual museum design out there (bright colours and kids), it has a nice, slick, mature feel to it and actually does a lot to appeal to the day-tripping general public by looking quite 'retail-ish' in its approach. Families will always turn up at museums so why not try branching out to a different market in a different way? I can see how this looks clip-arty but I can also see how much it could be pushed further. I imagine the client had a lot to do with this final iteration, as we all know this happens. I can also see how this is a step towards trying to deliver a slick, contemporary look for a UK museum which never really seems to happen. I can't really think of one big name UK museum which has design that sticks in my mind as being anything but blatantly shouting at kids to get through the door, or otherwise being stuck firmly in the past. This identity is far from perfect but the designers were clearly trying to take a museum in a different route, imagine how hard that must have been, and then imagine the designs they suggested that haven't made it through the committees to the final execution.
Random-icer
2011-07-12 14:45:18

I'm NOT saying it's a rip off, but the ident bears a striking resemblance to some Istock we used once:

http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-video-3907231-water-splash.php

... Which is probably not a good thing.

Really like the type in the logo and judging by the signage and BVA website, the overall brand looks really nice - just far too reliant on that stock-photo looking bit for the rest like t-shirts etc.
Ed
2011-07-12 14:45:45

Overall I think it's nice and slick but perhaps a bit rushed when it comes to the Observatory and the Queens house. The splash doesn't seem to be at all relevant to those two (unless I'm missing something). They could have kept the same type across all 3 but used different devices.

Also, I generally love Someone's work but for a company who say the logo is dead, the sure do a lot of logos.
Patrick
2011-07-12 14:57:29

Thanks for all the comments... great to hear what the design community thinks...

On the point about the splash and it's connection to the Royal Observatory: The relevance is slightly more subtle… but it’s there for the true astronomer… if you look a little closer…

Have a look here: http://yfrog.com/z/kkuwkxvj
Simon Manchipp
2011-07-12 15:11:10

Patrick, although I can see the design company trying something with this identity I agree with you there about the potential use for different icons or devices—I think museums can be guilty of just assuming that the general public know, or even care, about who is in charge of their associated venues/destinations. There are a lot of museum 'organisations' that run various museums within a certain catchment area under one umbrella brand and they seem very intent on letting the public know this, thus having one very irrelevant brand promoting the whole museum offer, when really, the public won't have a clue and it doesn't really matter if they did. I bet joe punter wouldn't have guessed in a million years that the Queens House was ran by the same organisation that runs the Maritime museum and what does it matter? Why does it need to made clear through their brand? Is it important to the visitor? Is it not more important that each venue is allowed to express its individual offer to its own target market? Loads of places do this so they're not alone there. Look at National Museums Scotland, National Museums Ireland, National Museum Wales — all of the individual museums just get lost within one monotonous brand. A pointless endeavour.
Random-icer
2011-07-12 15:28:17

Patrick, although I can see the design company trying something with this identity I agree with you there about the potential use for different icons or devices—I think museums can be guilty of just assuming that the general public know, or even care, about who is in charge of their associated venues/destinations. There are a lot of museum 'organisations' that run various museums within a certain catchment area under one umbrella brand and they seem very intent on letting the public know this, thus having one very irrelevant brand promoting the whole museum offer, when really, the public won't have a clue and it doesn't really matter if they did. I bet joe punter wouldn't have guessed in a million years that the Queens House was ran by the same organisation that runs the Maritime museum and what does it matter? Why does it need to made clear through their brand? Is it important to the visitor? Is it not more important that each venue is allowed to express its individual offer to its own target market? Loads of places do this so they're not alone there. Look at National Museums Scotland, National Museums Ireland, National Museum Wales — all of the individual museums just get lost within one monotonous brand. A pointless endeavour.
Random-icer
2011-07-12 15:37:38

It's ok, quite non-offensive really. How will the identity work when the maritime museum/observatory/queens house are inevitably part of a logo soup? The logo may be dead, but if you're supporting something you need a marque to show your presence.
Mandy
2011-07-12 15:45:45

I really like it, think it's a great solution for what would have been a challenging brief.

Re: Someone 'all over the design press' I guess it's because they are doing some pretty high profile, interesting work at the moment but also because they are very good at PR and self promotion. Most agencies wouldn't know a press release if they deigned it themselves.
pj
2011-07-12 15:48:09

Ah, the Pleides hidden image is very clever! But, for me, combining water, stars and a Royal connection into one image weakens all three. Primarily, it looks like a water company – where are the boats, the exploration, the history of time and wonderful social history of the Queen's House?

Aesthetically, I really like it! Bold and modern, and works to brand the whole group. But for the individual museums, the 'three for the price of one' approach has diluted the individual identities into a single puddle.
Ted Wright
2011-07-12 16:04:15

I was told it was inspired by the O2 identity.
Miles
2011-07-12 16:06:38

Mandy I disagree, I think you summed it up well enough yourself: "logo soup". How many times do you see a line of various logos sponsoring/supporting events dumped on the back at the bottom of a flyer, or a tiny press ad, all equally meaningless, all equally adding nothing to the promotional mix in terms of getting people to take notice and actually go along to the venue and in through the door, parting with their money as they do so? I think worrying about whether the 'marque' will look good at a tiny size amongst other logos is probably very bottom of the list when it comes to creating a successful identity.
Mandy-icer
2011-07-12 16:07:09

Re: The stock image. I'm a photographer, and you'd be surprised at how similar 'drops in water' can look, even with different weighted pebbles.
It's a really nice execution and the coloured differences have been worked up really well, I assume some sort of CGI.
All ideas come from some where, so can everyone stop banging on about "it looks similar" "it reminds me".. of course it does. We all live in the same world... don't we!
Steven De'Boo
2011-07-12 16:34:26

Steven De'Boo – I was more trying to make the point that the stock photo feel of the image makes the logo execution look quite rushed and bashed out rather than something that looks bespoke and tailored for this brand (something that was addressed to a degree by the Pleides revelation).

Which is a shame really because I like everything else.
Ed
2011-07-12 17:35:21

It's one of those situations where the creator of the 'identity' has seen the 'crown' and 'maritime' theme in the design and got carried away - forgetting to consider the other connotations which have all been very clearly voice in the other comments here. Nice, fresh, dynamic - but too late - it's been done and we have all been pre-programmed to see 'vodka or bacardi' or something like that (Or is that just me?)
David
2011-07-12 18:40:57

It reminds me of one of the many cliched beer ads from the past. I vote for the students idea. simple and clever!
Sarah
2011-07-12 22:17:15

In my opinion it's an ad idea applied to literature and signage. The idea is decent enough but for an institution such as the above it falls flat. I like the image on it's own but I can't help but feel it's a photographic version of the crown paints classic.

Personally I couldn't care less if works on a pen or in tiny executions (water droplet if we are) and if this is a requirement for great design then god help us all.
Jay
2011-07-12 22:50:52

Nice execution but this keeps reminding me of Budweiser... crown.. splash...
Max
2011-07-13 03:00:28

I think its quite interesting that while Mr Manchipp has been declaring the logo is dead for some months, this brand pretty much revolves around a logo and typography. Obviously we don't have the full story here, but it looks to me as if its a case of 'Just stick it on all collateral.' Is this not the very angle he proposes against?
john
2011-07-13 09:20:58

I can't see how this 'logo' to represent the brand will last a couple of years without becoming terribly monotonous and extremely restricting. It's hooray for SomeOne at the moment.. But certainly as designers start working with it across the 'board of implementation' I fear they will struggle and find it a pain in the ass.. So the splash has now been used for e v e r y t h I n g... What's next? Expect to see the same collateral of bags, flags and print design in 4 yrs time! The splash would have made a lovely introduction visual to introduce a new logo. NMM need to be prepared for high design costs because for this identity to rollout successfully they will need many hours of 3d rendering and Photoshop genius skills.
DNB
2011-07-13 09:35:33

Yep it's definitely a logo, no arguing. Manchipp, you're a bloody liar :)

But it's also a lovely piece of identity work, pulling together three fairly disparate entities. I would have liked to see it taken somewhat further, but this is probably reflective of the budget.
simon
2011-07-13 11:17:58

Didn't these guys do an identity for a digital company called Fjord recently? If not the identity is very similar in approach.

Check it out
http://www.fjordnet.com/
dave
2011-07-13 12:26:29

i think patrick's right in that water obviously ties in with the maritime theme, but what relation does it have to any of the other brands within the group?
emma
2011-07-13 13:14:43

I agree with Sean Rees previous comments.

Someone seem to have to created a few new buzz words for branding and have been very forward in talking about these ideas in the design press and events. This is all good if the work matched these claims of new 'BrandWorlds™' but putting personal stylistic taste aside the approach to these projects don't seem to be an innovative move away from logo led brand techniques that have been the norm for decades, just a slick 3D remodelling of them.
Harry Ead
2011-07-13 13:31:45

With all the negative feeling toward SomeOne here, I was thinking there surely must be other design agencies out there that sell themselves in a similar manner, if it gets them work, then it works for them! You're telling me that no other agency, ever, has either oversold themselves, or purported to be doing something new or radical or specialist or expert or fundamentally different, in order to get themselves new clients? I think most agencies have done that. All creative agencies offer basically the same service, or product, and kudos to whoever can dress it up enough to make waves and gain ground, especially these days when most clients would be happy getting a rip-off copy of indesign and doing it all themselves. And who here can honestly say that they've never, ever, not once, put out a piece of work that hasn't fulfilled it's original intent, or 'looks a little bit like clip art', or wasn't exactly their best work, or been glad they've just managed to do something the client is happy with so they get paid, or, god forbid, doesn't please everybody on the planet?
Random-icer
2011-07-13 14:11:46

That's a good point about doing something the client is happy with. I'm sure they're delighted with this. My main point was, like someone said earlier, trying to squeeze too much into one image dilutes it a bit. But just looking at the Maritime identity on it's own, I think it works well and is very nicely applied.

Someone have been knocking out some great identities recently, especially the Royal Opera House which I love, so we can't complain too much can we?
Patrick
2011-07-13 14:44:05

Random-icer, you hit the nail on the head there; he who has not sinned etc...
Fair enough it is a well thought out and designed logo. It has references to the Maritime Museum, Observatory and Queens House. Its the application that bothers me. The new thing is brand-cohesion, not consistency? This brand application is quite consistent, which could be perceived as dull or uninteresting...Is there more to this brand than the logo?
john
2011-07-13 15:04:27

Conceptually weak in my opinion, there may be a deeper relationship that is not so obvious, but then that miss the general public too!
If one of my students developed this at the tutorial stage we would be discussing ideas around the symbolism?

Isn't it the drop in the ocean, not the ocean itself?
Although the Queens House is a nice fit, with the use of gold and shape!

Love the Euorstar work
Chris G
2011-07-13 17:48:53

A 'flexible' identity? I thought that was something which adapted to the communication and the audience. Unless a flexible identity is now just changing the colours of a library image and cropping it differently. I live in Greenwich and unfortunately I'll have to see this dull and dated solution every time I go out. I'm tired of it already - and with the constant promotion of SomeOne
Colin
2011-07-13 20:16:25

So, apparently 'the logo is dead' but the Supergraphic is alive and well. Supergraphics are not a new approach, and without more of a look and feel, I don't think they can sustain more than a campaign level of communication.

Yes, the comparisons to O2 are fair, yes the resemblance to the iStock footage is very apparent, even if it was inspiration. But to me the biggest downfall is that sure 'royal maritime' translates into crown+water, but it really doesn't work for the Observatory or Queen's house, even if you try and justify it with hiding the Pleiades in there (which no one will ever get). You still end up with on first reading, a drop of water representing the royal observatory.
Is a drop of water even the best representation of the seas? it looks more like mineral water being poured than rough choppy seas.

And finally, even if you love the identity, the thing that's missing most, is the moving version of the 'logo'. The water is in full motion in the splash and yet there are no moving versions yet. That would be the jewel in the crown of the identity (excuse the pun). I'd even like to see the Splash, evolve, so they don't just slap the same image on everything, different splashes for different uses.

Maybe it's early days, but the executions let the side down, of what could have been a decent starting point, the idea.
josh
2011-07-14 11:10:43

It is simply horrific
Ben Jones
2011-07-14 11:54:12

The new identity feels more like a time limited campaign than an identity. I can see it working well against key messages but in all honesty I much prefer the student submission shown above, really love that.
Rob
2011-07-14 11:55:29

Very similar to what Crown Paint did years ago but not as nice. It would've been more interesting if the splash made other shapes across the campaign. It's not exactly groundbreaking...
Gareth
2011-07-14 11:57:56

Aaaa... cos it's like a splash and a crown and er... a splash of time... nice.

I like the Getty image from 10 years ago feel... makes it instantly dated. I mean classic.
Lee
2011-07-14 12:07:31

I must say, with all due respect to the students work but any experienced, professional designer who absolutely loves it: woe betide them, really. So a logo that uses the initials of a museum is groundbreaking? "OK so this is the concept: our big brand idea is...... 'INITIALS'!" I can't see it working really, it has no impact and the design of the students project actually looks more dated than SomeOnes version. I have absolutely no doubt that the students logo would be the first thing everybody in the studio would knock out, and then discard in favour of searching for more depth of concept. Like I say no disrespect to the student as it is good student-level work, but with years of experience it becomes a different matter.
Random-icer
2011-07-14 12:46:45

The MILK MARQUE is the original (predates Crown paints) and still the best version of this idea.

This is a logo, just poorly disguised as a stock shot.

Either way, it should have be drowned at birth.

Sam
sam
2011-07-14 13:10:21

"Restrained and elegant wordmarks" may be, but the kerning is simply awful!

Seth
Seth
2011-07-14 13:28:24

Had it been called 'the Royal Maritime Musuem' it would work. This way the crown/water combination doesn't really work perfectly for either of the three venues.
Berlina
2011-07-14 15:25:02

I think the student work is better. But to be fair to everyone the brief is a nonsense.

Why were the designers briefed to create an identity for an organisation that should be invisible?

What the client failed to understand is that they're an organisation (like Unilever for example) that has three world famous products that are totally unrelated to each other save for the fact that they are all located in the same spot. Can you imagine Unilever taking this approach?

Trying to lump the three into one identity will never work. The splash is a rather feeble as it has no relevance to two of the products.
Aubrey
2011-07-15 15:39:52

I like it. It's sophisticated and well... fluid! I like the crops too. It works well for the Maritime museum and the Queen's house (because of the reference to the crown - clever). But... it doesn't bear any relationship to the planetarium or observatory - it just feels like they've used the brand for the other establishments because they happen to be owned by the same organisation. A splash is so versatile, it could have been made to look like stars or something more relevant.
R
2011-07-15 16:37:43

..." suitable"?

I've never seen such a splash in sea water...
Marcel Garbi
2011-07-15 16:38:33

The splash appears to be the result of a small object dropped into a small receptacle of fresh water. Where is the broad, dramatic sweep of maritime exploration, discovery and heritage?
J
2011-07-15 17:21:38

I spent 45 minutes at NMM on Wednesday, and I was already sick of the sight of the new logo by the time I left. I can't see this lasting any longer than 12 months without the need to radically evolve it and introduce a bit of variety and flexibility.

And that's before you even start critiquing the concept of the thing.
Neil
2011-07-15 17:50:29

I see that others have already alluded to this, but beyond the initial appeal of this work (the crown reference is an accessible and appealing ‘smile in the mind’ ) the raindrop would seem to more directly reference meteorological than maritime. As such the longevity is questionable.
Martin
2011-07-18 00:50:40

I'm on the side of Jamin's idea. I think if that concept had had the budget of SomeOne's and been a bit more developed it could have been streets ahead. Easy to troll others efforts but I do agree that this will feel tired and over-used very quickly. Just looking at the article images above I was getting a bit tired of the whole splash/crown thing.
Chris
2011-07-18 12:54:56

I do like the execution of this, the type is spot on and the colour palette but I dont think the concept behind it is particularly strong. The three replicated splashes in different colours are not differentiated enough to represent the three different places, perhaps a slightly different splash for each? Just something subtle would have worked here I think, to me it does look a little lazy just to change the colour. Great design is all about the idea first and then the execution and I have to say that Jamins proposed idea is more compelling especially with regards to the maritime museum mark, with Someones skill and resources, they could have turned that idea into something quite brilliant.
Gemma
2011-07-18 14:03:52

I was told that it was not inspired by the O2 identity.
miles
2011-07-19 08:36:37

Here's my two pennies worth... http://bit.ly/nxesLf
Steve Leard
2011-07-20 16:06:56

Kind of awkward as Jamin now has an internship at the company that he being compared with. I personally prefer Jamin's version of this logo but the I can see how attractive the other one is. It is a little bit boring though and the Type is pretty disgusting. Jamin's is a lot more modern and has a better idea behind it.
I guess that Someone got Jamin on board because they can see that they sort of need him! haha, is that a bit harsh?

So... I guess my opinion is that Jamin is better with ideas and has a much cleaner approach but Someone makes things look a bit more interesting. Good combo.
Jamie
2011-07-22 12:42:15

Kind of awkward as Jamin now has an internship at the company that he being compared with. I personally prefer Jamin's version of this logo but the I can see how attractive the other one is. It is a little bit boring though and the Type is pretty disgusting. Jamin's is a lot more modern and has a better idea behind it.
I guess that Someone got Jamin on board because they can see that they sort of need him! haha, is that a bit harsh?

So... I guess my opinion is that Jamin is better with ideas and has a much cleaner approach but Someone makes things look a bit more interesting. Good combo.
Jamie
2011-07-22 21:45:03

All killer. No filler.

this rocks.
TheEgg
2011-07-23 20:51:47

The identity looks fantastic, but as others have mentioned the splash affect will be a pain to work with on future designs - the splash affect in the header of a letter for example will be difficult to work with on a white background. Regardless the identity is great, application will be a pain but worth it!

I do prefer the splash effect as it looks more polished and IMHO fits with the "big company" look the museum is likely looking for.
William
2011-12-15 16:20:19

This is absolutely outrageous. A small agency in Norwich (Where Jamin went to university) have blatantly plagiarised this design for wellwise group. This is outrageous and the personally I think the click owe Jamin the fee for this project. It is identical... There is no doubt that Jamin's design was seen at his degree show, one minute walk from the click's office, and has been plagerised by their design team.

This is terrible.

http://theclickdesign.com/projects/wellwise-group/
Jamie Johnstone
2012-02-22 12:05:02

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